An Old Fart At Play: Conversations With Captain Beefheart by Lou Stathis

This interview was taken from the August 1983 edition of Heavy Metal Magazine. A big thankyou to Don Trubey for scanning and sending it along.

Photograph copyright Anton Corbijn, used by kind permission

There’s no doubt in my mind that Don Van Vliet (better known by his nom de disc, Captain Beefheart) is one of the most extraordinary humans on the face of the Earth. A few years ago, in a youthfully effusive frenzy, I called him an ubermensch (superman, for you non-Nietzscheans), something he’s never let me live down. But the man isn’t so much a superman, as… well, a separate genus and species of humanity all his own.

That’s utter dogshit, of course – the man’s body has the same creaks and groans, and produces the same stinky waste products as the rest of us stuck here on God’s golf ball. But it’s trying to figure out the workings of his mind – the wildest bouncing day-glo colored ball of vaseline you’ve ever chased – that gets you into trouble groping for metaphors beyond the linguistic fringe. Like all great creative anomalies, he’s hewn his own universe from the meat of our cast-offs, and deposited himself at its center; a passionate, curious, intensely sensitive, cranky, and hilariously funny child who refuses to “grow up,” and probably couldn’t, even if he wanted to.

He’s an artist because his mind won’t allow his body to sit still; his chosen mediums are oil on canvas, marker on sketch pad, words on paper, and vibrating air molecules on ear drum. His music is an exhilarating, euphonious cacophony, composed either on piano or whistled/hummed/scat-sung into a tape recorder to be meticulously transposed according to his exacting specifications by his band (including at the moment: Gary Lucas, guitar and management; Jeff Tepper, guitar; Richard Snyder, bass; Eric Feldman, keyboards; Cliff Martinez, drums).

The sounds made by the Magic Band ring in your head like no other music you’ve ever heard. Audacious, unheard-of harmonies dart and shimmer in the light, and leave strange, exotic tastes in your mouth. Swamp-motor rhythms both support and subvert the foundations of listener expectations – every time you reach out to lean on one, it’s suddenly no longer there. It is an assaulting, cataclysmically intense, vastly entertaining, and fucking humbling body of work – one that I’m convinced will one day be regarded as a high point of our age.

Van Vliet was born in Glendale, California in 1941. His first album, a night’s worth of steamy, psychedelic blues, was recorded in 1965, but not released until 1970 as Mirror Man. Since then, vinyl highlights of a career that’s taken more ups and downs than Richard Nixon’s include: Strictly Personal (1968; one of the essential documents of the psychedelic age), Trout Mask Replica (1969; a monument of deviant creativity), Lick My Decals Off, Baby (1970: a sort of twisted, Beefheartian pop album), The Spotlight Kid (1972; a sort of twisted, Beefheartian blues album), Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) (1978; Don in a mellow mood), Doc At the Radar Station (1980; my choice for the one album I want to be buried with), and Ice Cream for Crow (last year’s reaffirmation of Van Vliet’s vitality).

These days, Don lives in a trailer in the middle of the Mohave desert with his wife, Jan. He is busily preparing for a major New York gallery show of his paintings, planned for sometime in the fall. In his spare time, he has written about eighty songs for the next Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band LP, scheduled for recording in the late fall, probably for a Christmas release. He recently turned down an offer to produce Laurie Anderson’s next album in order to concentrate on his painting. (That olympian clashing of sensibilities could’ve produced something interesting, to say the least) This interview was conducted during one of Don’s infrequent visits to New York, when by all accounts, he is at his worst: terminally wired, sleepless, paranoid, overloaded with sensory input, and painfully sensitized to everything around him. It was one of the most difficult interviews I’ve ever done, and one of best times I’ve ever had. You had to there.

A Useful Member of Society

You once said that not going to school enabled you to remain a child.

Yeah I still feel like a child – every day, everything is exciting and brand new to me.

You think school removes the child from all of us?

Yeah, I think so. Why do they do that?

To make you a more useful member of society.

Well, I’m certainly not useful. I’m quite natural, and that’s why they don’t want to use me. I don’t want them to.

It would be economically disastrous to have 200 million people like you in this country – lots of fun, though. How extraordinary do you think you are?

I don’t – not at all.

Do you think you’re different from most people?

No, I don’t think so. Well… I do what I want, and most people don’t. So in that way, I guess I’m definitely different, cause I do do what I want.

And that’s all that sets you apart? You don’t think you’re gifted in any special way?

I’m smart as hell – I know that – and I don’t have that many roadmaps on my head. People have roadmaps – I didn’t want ’em. I didn’t take ’em.

And that was a conscious effort?

I fought it – totally. I may get hardening of the arteries, but never hardening of the eyes. I’m stubborn, real stubborn.

How long can you hold out?

All along. Why not?

And why haven’t others done what they wanted to do?

They’re lazy. I work all the time. I haven’t taken a vacation in my life. I’m working – writing, painting, and doing music all the time, day and night. I’ve seen the sun and the moon almost every day of my life. I make it a habit to see both of them. I want to see all of it, if I can.

What do you think your art does for people?

I think it makes them breathe. I mean, I’m not so sure they should pay too close attention – I wouldn’t want them to get hurt.

Why not? It’d probably do them some good.

Probably. It’s never hurt me.

Last of a Dying Breed

How does it feel to be one of the last remaining members of the avant-garde?

I don’t think there ever was any. Do you?

Yeah. I think so – there’s always been a group of people doing something totally different, working outside existing parameters and ignoring everyone else.

What group?

You know – various art movements in the past: Dada, shit like that.

[wistfully] Oh yeah, wasn’t that nice? All those painters…

Well, all that seems to have disappeared. Do you think there’s any room left for the avant-garde?

There better be room for those of us doing exactly what we want, cause that’s what I’m going to do anyway. It’s like in the record industry – they’re totally desperate. The only way they’re going to get out of their hole is to start paying attention to real artists.

Drowning people rarely reach for what will save them – they’ll grab anything they can.

Well, they won’t get a hold of me. They’ll get sucked in with me.

That’s optimistic. I think. They don’t really hear anything unless it comes through their bank accounts.

Then I’ll influence them through their dollar bills. [makes dumb bird gestures] I’ll tell you what. I ain’t going nowhere. I mean, I’m going to stay here and do what I damn well please. I’ll never not do what I damn please. There’s no way I’ll ever do anything I don’t want to do.

Do you feel at all like a dinosaur? A last member of a dying breed?

I feel like everyone else’s been asleep. All along. And they’d better wake up.

What’s this shit about your never wanting to tour again? Is that true?

[grimaces painfully]

Have you had it?

I’d’ve always had it. It was only a few people I played to, anyway. I mean, all the time that I was playing, there were only a few people – small pockets of people really listening.

It isn’t worth doing for the number of people you can reach?

I can’t afford it. And it takes up too much time. I’d much rather stay home and work. I’ve got too much to do.

But the thought of never seeing you and the band live again is painful to me.

Me, too, in a way. But I’m getting too selfish – I’ll still see the band. We’ll still make records – l’ve got more compositions to record now than I’ve ever had before. And this band – there’s no end to the things I can do with them. They want to do eveything.

C’mon, tell me the truth. Will you really never play another concert again? I’d even fly to L.A. to see you.

You would? Then we’ll put on a concert for you.

Talk about small pockets of people! If you’re playing in a hall that seats two thousand, or so, what percentage of them do you think are awake? Five percent? Ten percent?

[laughs] I don’t know; I never think of it that way. I hate lower mathematics.

Painting In the Dark

[cringing Dracula-like from the light] I’m photophobic. Light just puts my eyes out.

Don’t you go out in the daytime?

Of course not! For me to do that is really unusual. They’re [pointing at eyes] really getting a treat when I do that.

Don’t you need light when you paint?

No, I know what I want on the canvas anyway.

So it’s more head-to-hand than eye-to-head-to-hand.

Sure, but the eye does have something to do with it. I’m trying to get my head-to-hand in shape, though, like Van Gogh. It’s ridiculous, but I’ll do it. Who’s gonna tell me I won’t? Me, and I’m not going to tell me I won’t. I can do it with music, so I can do it with paint.

How many paintings and drawings do you have stashed away that no one’s seen?

Thousands. That shade on the Ice Cream for Crow cover [painting used for album cover painted on window shade] was done during Trout Mask. My wife brought it out – I had done it during a rehearsal. She had it in her purse – she was saving the thing. Pulled it out one day and said, “Maybe you can use this.”

How are you preparing for your gallery show?

I’m painting like crazy – really painting. I mean, put me in front of an empty white square, and I’ll go nuts. And I’m doing these really big paintings – ten feet by ten feet, seven feet square…

Are you working in the trailer?

No, I’m working out front.

At night?

Yeah. I put up lights, but sometimes I walk away and paint in the dark. Sometimes, it’s just a feeling, and you really don’t need to see what you’re doing – what am I saying? Of course you do. But I like to feel the damn paint, and the canvas with its big teeth. I feel like I’m being attacked by a big cloth werewolf. I mean, the feel of the softness and thickness of the paint with the brush – it’s almost like fur.

Not Hot Enough

I’m moving to Arizona.

Why the hell are you doing that?

It’s hotter. It’s not hot enough in Lancaster.

You like the heat?

Yeah, as long as I have a swamp cooler.

A fan and a pan of water?

Yeah. [laughs] Then I can see the heat. I love that. I want it as hot as it can get. I like the extremes, and the extremes in Arizona are fantastic! Winter is really cold – there’s snow – and the heat is real hot. Extremes are kind of pleasant to me.

That would drive me crazy – it bothers me about N.Y.C.

Yeah, but you enjoy it. That’s why you’re here – you enjoy going crazy.

I enjoy the result, but not the process. Doesn’t it make you at all physically uncomfortable?

Nah. I had asthma as an infant, so I need plenty of space to breathe.

How the hell can you breathe at all when it’s so damn hot?

Well, you have to really try.

And that’s good?

I think so. That way you can’t relax – I’d hate that. Then you’d get laaiidd baaack. [burlesques total muscle relaxation] Yecch, I hate that, y’know, “Hey man, I’m laid back.” Like the music – fly spray music. Yeah. I wouldn’t mind leaving L. A. at all.

What sort of environment will you set up for yourself in Arizona?

I’d like it to be near Tempe, but way out in the desert. I’ll have a house, and a studio to paint in.

Have you found a place that you want?

No, I’m going to build it.

With your own little hands?

Yeah. [laughs hysterically] My own little hands.

Lou Stathis, 1983


  1. first heard the captain on clear spot and didn’t think it was that far out. the guy who traded it me for something or other, was like, ooh you might not dig this cos its so unlike anything – and it sounded like half way decent rhythm n blues of a kind soulful bobby bland malaco perid kind of thing.specially too much time. i thought ‘is that what all these rock types are making so much noise about? big eyed beans from venus was the flytrap, though.

    i listened to john peel in those days and he dug the captain. i remember him being all over himself when doc @ the radar stn came out. i didn’t get it. it sounded flat and dull on my crappy little radio, and i thought, well fair enough, and left it at that.

    then i saw the bbc doc YEARS later and it really hit me! baby, you can bury me to a massed choir of hoodrats bellowing electricity and know i’ll be happy in hell!

    after that i had to go out n get the grow fins dble. the studio stuff convinced me this guy is straight up blues. i really think those 20s guys would not have found his music that strange -we hear them throught the filter of time and its hard to separate them from what lesser musicians have made of their work – specially wolf and rob’t johnson.

    so i thought, well trout mask replica is sposed to be so unlistenable and the bits i was growing to like were kind of extreme – extremelely beautiful, i mean orange claw hammer makes me cry its so lovely – that i finally summoned up the kahunas to get me a copy.

    & u know what? its the easiest, most pleasant, life affirming ‘rock’ album i ever had the good fortune to encounter – and i dont really care much for rock, not the music the words or the singing or the sound. this is the only album of rock i can listen to in one go and not feel embarassed by the music or sad for the musicians, or not have to go n listen to some coltrane or elmore or wolf to clean my ears out.

    & the other day i heard doc @ the radar stn again and now…. i get it

    bless you don!

  2. “I’ll still see the band. We’ll still make records – l’ve got more compositions to record now than I’ve ever had before. And this band – there’s no end to the things I can do with them. They want to do eveything.”

    Such a shame it never happened! That band was in my opinion his best ever, virtuosic and totally committed to his music. I don’t think he was boasting about all the compositions he had ready, either. He was at a musical peak when he walked away from it all, to the lasting sorrow of his admirers…

  3. People talk about how long it took them to get it. I understand it right away. This guy is/was a kindred spirit of mine. Wish I had known him. All the other stream of consciousness stuff I’ve heard in my life sounds contrived to one degree or another, except this. Captain Beefheart, high point of this age. And a nod to Zappa for seeing the genius and putting up with all the stuff so we could have this legacy.

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