How do you run your own label, lead several bands, write, tour and keep sane? Somehow, virtuoso saxophonist Tim Berne's been able to do this since the late '70's with a huge variety of ensembles that includes trios, string quartets and big bands playing everything from no-holds-barred improv to scripted compositions. As he prepares to unleash four of these groups at the Knitting Factory, we cornered him for a moment to find out how he manages this amazing balancing act.

Everything I do, I focus on. If I'm playing with one group, I'm not thinking about the other groups. The reason I do so many things is to change my focus, to try to grow. I find that once a group becomes established, we get used to each other and I fall into traps, not challenging myself. Changing personnel forces me to readdress what it is I'm doing in a different way.

If I do a lot of one group, then I decide to do another group just to fuck with my head. I get scared that I'm going to get complacent. With Bloodcount, I did a million gigs in about five years and I reached this point where it wasn't fresh for me. Rather than keep doing gigs just because people wanted to hear it, I decided to give myself a sabbatical from that. I'll do it again when I'm ready to write new stuff and change it.

I focused on some other things, playing with some different people just to kick myself in the ass and make it difficult. When I do Bloodcount again, I'll be really hungry for it.

There's a lot of trust between the three of us so that we can go into a lot of different directions. No one's afraid that it might sound bad or we might die for a few minutes. That's necessary when you're improvising because the last thing you want to do is to plan it or go for the safe choices. You need guys who aren't afraid to fail just to get to that magic.

The audience is a HUGE factor. We pick up a lot of shit. You can sense how much trust they have and how much rope you have. When you know they're with you from the start, it pushes you into taking chances. Or playing in a dead quiet room where they're really listening, you can get into all these little nuances.

In the studio, you're trying to get to that same place. You have headphones and you're just playing for an engineer. You think it has to be perfect. You might be less likely to take chances and don't stretch out as much. With the audience, you can get a little more indulgent because you can feel this thing, riding this wave.

To not get caught up in the career aspect of what I'm doing. Sometimes that means not playing and just sitting at home and thinking or writing. Not trying to earn every penny I can or trying to get every gig I can when I'm thinking about what I'm doing. The main thing is to come up with some interesting music.

Many thanks to Tim Berne for the photo, cheers. You can visit his web site at www.screwgunrecords.com where you can listen to numerous lengthy sound clips and find information about ordering his material.