This highly recommended interview was conducted by Kristine
McKenna and was taken from the January 1988 edition of Spin magazine.
Many thanks to Voot Zombo for the source info.
Don Van Vliet was born in Glendale, California, on January 15,
1941, the only child of Glenn and Sue Van Vliet. Don began showing
artistic talent at a very young age but Glenn and Sue were none
too keen on having an artist in the family. "Cause you know, all
artists are faggots," Don explains. When he was young, the family
moved to the Mojave Desert, an isolated, brutal environment that
they hoped would bleach the creative juice out of their son. But
Van Vliet's drive to translate the world around him into art only
intensified; in 1966 he introduced himself to the world as Captain
Beefheart.
Beginning with his debut LP, Safe As Milk (1966), and continuing
through 11 subsequent albums, Captain Beefheart replaced conventional
approaches to language with a startling marriage of rural folk tales,
voodoo, ecological propagandising, punning, free association, and
a spectrum of sound that stretched from Charles Ives, Stravinsky,
jazz, and delta blues to the natural sounds of the Mojave desert,
Beefheart’s five-octave vocal range allowed him to slip from character
to character as he ruminated on his pet themes: the wonderfulness
of women, nature, man's stunning stupidity and spiritual sloth,
and the splendour of everything in the galaxy from Halley's Comet
to a rusty nail.
Often dismissed as a charming eccentric, Beefheart never fared
too well in the musical market-place, and in 1982, after his eleventh
and what he claims to be his last album, Ice Cream For Crow, he
moved from his mobile home in the desert to northern Arizona, and
devoted himself to his painting. In 1985 Julian Schnabel helped
arrange a showing of Van Vliet's paintings at the Mary Boone Gallery
in New York. The show was well received, and exhibitions at the
Michael Werner Gallery in Cologne, Germany, and the Leslie Waddington
Gallery in London followed. Beefheart now shows his work regularly
in London and Cologne, and recently published a book of his poetry
and paintings called Skeleton Breath, Scorpion Blush. He now makes
a comfortable living as an artist - something he was never able
to do as a musician. Though he continues to compose and play music
for his own pleasure, he says he has no intention of trying to sell
his musical wares.
What's your sense of the future?
The future is random - I choose to think that because the alternative
is too frightening. Then again, death isn't that frightening, although
we're certainly taught to be afraid of it. Society does a real good
job, doesn't it? As far as the immediate future, Charlton Heston
will probably be our next president. God, I can't stand that guy!
We're gonna have a big yellow tooth on TV and it'll be President
Heston. I hope my prediction doesn't come true, but it wouldn't
surprise me if it did.
Would you classify yourself as an angry man?
When I was three years old I was very disappointed to open a dictionary
and read "the great auk - extinct." Now that didn't leave me with
much faith in humanity. The dictionary illustration of it is pretty
good, too, and here they've been killed off! That gorgeous bird!
What the hell! The passenger pigeon is gone, the snail darter is
gone - we won't ever see one. These things really bother me.
Is anger a productive emotion?
Yes, it is if you treat it right. Your heart won't attack you if
you're nice to it.
What things make you sad?
First we have to find out what ''sad'' is, which is something I
don't know. There's that get-well-card idea of sad, but I don't
like that clown stuff. I do like the idea of painting a clown, only
not the kind of clowns they clown around with. I have some funny
clowns in my paintings.
What's the most significant difference between men and women?
Women are more dolphin-like, and they're obviously better looking.
Proboscis monkeys look pretty good, too. Jesus, those things have
wise faces. But men they're shits! Shits! The whole race has a problem.
They don't like to be trained! I sound like one of those mean courtmasters
or a German general, but when it comes to art I have a real streak
of fascism. I want it to be exactly the way I conceived it, and
if one line is changed, it's like hey, fuck it, I don't need it.
The reason I quit doing music is because it was too hard to control
all the other people I needed to play the stuff. I'd had enough
animal training. I did enjoy playing with Eric Feldman, though.
He's really nice and his folks are the most incredible people I've
ever met in my life. His mother and father used to come see the
music and actually really dig it. Can you imagine that? They lived
in a nice house in the San Fernando Valley near this cigar store
called the Tinderbox, and he - his name was Harold - had a T-Bird
and it looked good. He dressed really nice and he'd sit there, with
Liz, and wait for us to go on. They weren't there just to see their
son, they wanted to hear some blow. One time I said to him, "Oh,
you're here to see Eric," and he replied in this real serious way,
"Watch it." That was his way of saying, I'm here to see the whole
thing. Eric lives in San Francisco on Haight Street now.
Did you spend any time in San Francisco when it was the centre
of the universe?
Yeah, and I thought it was very corny, like a red movie, a real
cheapo, low-budget horror movie. I mean, come on, lava lamps? Good
God!
Have you ever spent time in a city where you felt something
special and extraordinarily creative was going on?
Yeah, New York, but that was quite a while ago. These days it reminds
me of a bowl of underpants. It's filthy there. It did have some
good periods though [Hums a few bars of "I'll Take Manhattan"].
I stayed at the Gramercy Park Hotel and they were very nice to me.
I liked the girl who worked there. She was going with a senator
and she dug my music. I couldn't believe it. She really knew my
music. She must've been real hip and real bored.
How do you account for the fact that some people have an insatiable
appetite for things that are intense and unusual, whereas other
people prefer things to be calm and predictable?
Grey matter. The big trick. They have more to turn over I guess.
Was Freud right?
Absolutely not. He was an opportunistic imbecile. He thought the
female vagina was comparable to the nostril. Now that isn't funny!
That's a hell of a thing to put on women, for chrissake. I don't
think of it that way.
Why did people take to his ideas so eagerly?
Because people are stupid.
Which of the four elements are you most drawn to?
It would have to be fire.
What does fire signify to you?
Can I get in and out of it fast enough?
What are your favourite smells?
Ah, now we're into tinctures. I like the smell of fungus, and loam
is awfully nice, too. I like damp, outdoors smells. They have incredible
moss where I live. I like the smell of cotton, too - I wear cotton
pajamas quite often. Cotton and silk are my favorite materials.
I just bought a wonderful coat made of faded cotton by this guy
Calvin Klein who must be real hip. I don't know anything about him,
but he sure did turn out a good product.
Most people aren't aware that you're interested in clothes and
are in fact a bit of a dandy. You're also quite knowledgeable about
beer, whiskey, chocolate, and cigars. Is there anything you care
to recommend?
Hmmmm. Today it would have to be La Phraogue single malt whiskey.
There are a number of objects you've told me you're extremely
fond of - darning eggs, red enamel thumb tacks, and the Cootie,
which was a large, plastic toy bug that was around in the fifties
and sixties. What attracts you to these things?
They're correct in every way - shape, colour, everything. You know,
that guy Calvin Klein somehow got onto that Cootie consciousness
- the colours he uses are similar to those things. Yeah, that's
some very intelligent work going on there.
What sort of landscape do you find most compelling?
I like the ocean and where it ends - the horizon line. That's a
good spot. I dig the fjords, too - they're in Norway. I've seen
some pretty unusual things - I've seen 19 saucers, for instance.
Those were interesting experiences, and seeing them didn't scare
me - but then, I don't know what fear is. The idea of safety is
nice, but how can we protect ourselves? There are demons without
and within. I wish they wouldn't paint.
Is it true that your father drove a Helm's Bakery truck for
25 years?
Yeah, he did. Have you ever had any of their stuff? You would've
dug it. No preservatives. My father used to bring that stuff home
but I wouldn't eat it because I wanted to be svelte. I was really
a screwball when I was younger. I'm talking about eating and running
I used to do that. I wanted to look good in the clothing I had tailor-made.
I started having a tailor make my clothes when I was 19. That was
the only way to go. The first thing I had made was a suit with a
vest, an English type of thing. The first time I wore it I went
to this place called Pipp's which was a damn good place at one time.
I didn't go there with a date but I had one by the time I left.
Yeah, the suit worked quite well. But I kept worrying about her
getting her damn makeup on my suit! Why would anybody wear makeup
is what I'd like to know although I guess it's alright once in a
while, lust a little eyeliner.
Didn't you used to wear makeup on stage?
Yeah, I did a couple Of times, but it was distortive makeup. I'm
talking about red lips and yellow eyelids - just nutty things, which
was really stupid, but sort of hip, too. Not nearly as hip as somebody
like Laurence Olivier, though. I mean, good God, you don't even
know he's there!
Are you surprised that you continue to be a presence in the
music world despite the fact that you vacated the premises six years
ago?
Yeah, it is surprising. The people who still listen to my music
must understand that I never meant them any harm - I just felt that
some change was in order. There was nothing mean in what I was doing,
although nature can be pretty mean, and nature is what that music
was about. But not nature with a loincloth.
Do you ever miss being involved in the music business?
No. The first flash I had on everything I ever did was it for me.
All the rest was just the laborious effort of trying to recreate
that flash correctly. It was all about memory, really. I'm glad
I have a good memory.
You think memory is a blessing rather than a curse? It's definitely
a blessing. I sure as hell hate the idea of geriatric wards. Now
that to me is sad.
How do you explain the disdain this culture has for old age?
This culture is out of its mind. I was old when I was young so
I could be young the rest of my life. That approach seems to be
working out quite well for me.
Can wisdom only be attained through painful experience?
I don't think it has anything to do with that. Some people have
the same painful experience time after time and they still don't
get it. Boring, aren't they? I think wisdom is more the result of
a lucky birth - either that or a frightening birth.
Does the art world treat you better than the music world did?
Oh yeah. I've met some incredible people in the art world. My dealer
in London, Leslie Waddington, is a wonderful individual. He knew
Matisse and lots of other great characters. Yeah, I'm much better
off now. I'm just up here painting and getting beat up by my cats.
These creatures are so intelligent it's frightening, especially
this cat of mine named Garland. He's as smart as a chimpanzee and
he tricks me in every way. You know they don't know that much about
cats. Cats just came in and started living among humans. You wouldn't
believe what I do for these things! I'm not that good at gymnastics
but I bend over and pet Garland for 15 minutes while he's eating.
Garland likes Lightnin' Hopkins but he has too much ego to listen
to my music. If I'm listening to my music while I paint and Garland
walks up I have to turn off the music or he won't come in the room.
What was your most memorable encounter with an animal other
than man?
During the time I was rehearsing to record Trout Mask Replica,
I saw a coyote in Woodland Hills I think it was playing, but it
hit one of my fingers and knocked me down. It was exciting and I
wasn't afraid - it was great seeing some wildlife. This happened
exactly at 6:20 PM. It was almost dark, or damn near. It was twilight
time, or whatever they call it. There's a line on Trout Mask "It
breaks my heart to see the highway cross the hill" - that may have
something to do with my encounter with that coyote.
You’ve said that it’s highly unlikely that you’ll ever record
another album of music. Is there a possibility you might record
a spoken word album of you reading some of your writings?
That's quite possible, but it's a frightening idea. I get scared
to death when I recite - even the thought of it makes my mouth dry.
Poetry is scary to me. I think Philip Larkin may be the best poet
I've ever read.
Better than Shakespeare?
No, nobody's that good. I mean the idea of his name even . . .
wow! Willie the Shake, that's what Lord Buckley called him.
Were you a fan of Buckley's?
No. He was a comedian for hippies with liberal tendencies and I
can't make that junction.
Is it true you met Malcolm X?
Yeah, I was 13 at the time and I met him in L.A. at the corner
of Sixth and Spring. Why did they kill him? That really upsets me.
He was one of the good ones. Anyhow, he was downtown giving a speech
and I'd taken a bus down there to find a pair of shoes. Oh, I was
a nut. I was looking for a pair of City Club shoes, which is a very
plain, pointed opera pump. I found the shoes.
What are the sounds your paintings make?
Shadows breathing on themselves.
You recently told me that you thought that music sounded best
over the phone. Can you explain why?
Because it’s monaural, and the way the phone distorts music is
my favourite distortion.
What’s the most significant change you’ve observed in your self
over the past year?
I'm more content because I'm doing exactly what I want to do and
nobody can say anything about it. But then, how could they say anything
about my music? Why did they? People consider music a collaborative
medium but I was never collaborating with anyone. My cat Garland
is probably the one creature on earth I’ll defer to. Garland and
my wife, Jan. I try to get Jan involved in my painting but she refuses
to be. She dances out of reach.
When you're feeling psychically and spiritually depleted how
do you restore yourself?
A Mrs. Grace chocolate fudge cake. I feel like saying "Take me
to your leader" when I see one of those things.
What's your favourite appliance?
A Hamilton Beach Mixer. We had one of those when I was little.
When it wore out we took it apart and I mean, my God! Have you seen
those brushes in the dark? When I was around two years old I looked
inside that Hamilton Beach Mixer and I saw the universe in there.